Stefanie: So I think like maybe…. so okay, so basically, I don't know. I don't want to answer this question. This is hard.

 

Nadège: Welcome back everybody to Pleasure Science, a podcast that makes sexual liberation your new normal by changing the way you love and feel loved. Today we have a very, very special episode. I have never done an episode like this before. We're going to be talking to Stefanie Megan, host and creator of the Broke Girl Therapy podcast, and we're going to be doing a live sex coaching episode. 

 

Welcome, Stefanie. I'm so excited you're here. 

 

Stefanie: Hi! I'm so excited to be here. And you know, you always make me cry. So I got my tissues ready. And I'm ready to let it all out.

 

Nadège: Oh, I'm so excited. 

 

Stefanie:  Perfect time for therapy!

 

Nadège: I know. You're Broke Girl Therapy for a reason. You kill it. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: But in the healing department, you're doing great at healing. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: That's a weird thing to say. 

 

Stefanie: But you're really suffering over there. 

 

Nadège: Way to struggle. 

 

Stefanie: Well, you know, a little bit of that too, so…

 

Nadège: Well, we always start off every episode the same. And so before we dive into what's going on in your life and how we can improve things, what is your definition of sex?

 

Stefanie: My definition of sex, I actually never really thought of it. Because if you asked me when I was like 16, it'd be like a penis goes into a vagina and that it makes it sex, you know? But now obviously as a grown 34 year old woman who's experienced sex and a lot of things in life, I think it's definitely like... It's a form of intimacy. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a penis and a hole. But it's something that is a form of intimacy. Damn, I'm not good at the definitions here. 

 

Nadège: You know what? I love this question because no one asks it. It's why we always start… So it's like, and you're right. Sex is a form of intimacy. And what I'm also hearing is, it's expansive, right? Like it's so much more than the P and the V, which is what we always think. So you didn't answer wrong. You answered perfect, because you're helping, as you think everybody else thinks too. I think that's why people like podcasts, right? We get to really just experience, explore, and speaking of experiencing and exploring. A little backstory on me and Steph. 

 

Well, fun fact, we actually know friends from way, way back in the day, which we didn't even know. We have mutual friends dating back to high school, like 15, almost 20 years ago. But Steph and I met because she has this great podcast, Broke Girl Therapy, and I have been on it. And in one of the most recent episodes of Broke Girl Therapy, I was a guest and we started talking about your life, everything going on with your wonderful boyfriend, Brian, and it kind of turned into sex coaching session. 

 

We talked about your libido and mismatched libido in relationships, because that's super common, something you guys experience. And so I had the idea with this season of Pleasure Science, I'm a sex coach and I always get asked, what is that and how does it work? Do you bite? What is it? And I thought, you know what? Steph is one of the most beautiful, open, you're just so open with your life and it's such a gift that you give to others. And I was like, you know what? Let's check back in with Steph. We had a first kind of live coaching session on your show that everyone should listen to. And I think the episode is called Struggling With My Libido, right? Like if they wanted to find it. Yeah. Something with libido.

 

Stefanie: Yeah. Something with libido. Search libido, Pleasure Science, Broke Girl Therapy, and I'm sure you'll find it. 

 

Nadège: Yep, you'll find all the things. And so today we're kind of doing a check-in 2.0, which I love because that is what, like, people are really going to see what a session is like, because you and I have already done a little bit of work together. And so with any coaching session, we always begin with kind of a check-in. How have things been since we last spoke? And so thinking, and obviously you and I have seen each other, we're friends, so we've seen each other since our last time on your show. But the last time I was on your show and we were talking about everything going on with you, if I remember correctly, I remember giving you action steps of journaling in the morning, of connecting to your libido as if it were a friend so you could talk to, is part of yourself, and that like… there was a lot of amazing communication happening with you and Brian in terms of like you had, you had an expectation in your head that you were supposed to just always be able to be turned on, sex every day. And he was like, love you, baby, but you, we don't need to have sex every day. Like that's not my expectation. So that was what I remember and where I left off. 

 

Bless you, girl. Sneezegasm. 

 

Stefanie: One more is coming. It always comes in two. It always comes in two. 

 

Nadège: Best things do. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: So now I'll turn it over to you. Let's check in. How are things and what is present from you from the last time we did a sex coaching deep dive like this?

 

Stefanie: Yeah, I mean, I think… thank you for reminding me that I need to journal it because I haven't been doing that. ADHD over here. So there still needs to be more practice on the affirmations. But I think that your episode when we did that has stuck with me. I mean, I think about my libido all the time now. I think about the conversation that we had. So I do tell myself in my head, and maybe not as consistently, but I do have moments where I'm like, no, you have your own specific relationship with your libido. Don't let someone tell you what it needs to be or what it shouldn't be, you know? And I think because a lot of the things that kind of perspire in my relationship with Brian is like that shame, you know? Again, my assumption is I need to be on for my man all the time when it's just like, no, actually the expectations are just once a week, girl. Like that's okay. Simplify it, you know? And I think it's because there's shame and expectations and whatever that's happening there. So I need to remind myself like, you're okay if you function like this, you know? 

 

And then I think also, I mean, we still battle with it. I don't think it's something that is just like completely healed 1000%, you know, but we are finding our ways. We've learned that Google Calendar is just my love, you know, like even down to… I invite him to stuff on my calendar. He sees my calendar. It has nothing to do with him. If I'm going to go to a shoot or if I have a recording come over, over if I have an appointment, I'll send him an invite. 

 

And now he's been doing that too with haircuts and stuff like that. So then, we started to get into that habit. And then now we're like, actually just put in date nights. You know, you don't even need to ask me. Look at my calendar. If you see that this specific day is open, just put it in there. And so we've been starting to do that. And that actually has been very helpful. Cause it'd be like, okay, you know, we'll have this date night and we'll, and it's not even like, ok we're going to fuck, you know, it's just like, we're just going to spend time together. Cause I think that's also a big factor on why my libido maybe isn't as active is that like, I need that quality time. I need that mental stimulation. So like, making sure that we make time for that first. And then sex always does come with that later. Sometimes it doesn't, you know, because we're really tired or whatever. But it's been, it's been a journey just adjusting to that. But there's still room for growth.

 

Nadège: Yeah. And so as we're hearing everything that's happening right now, first off, I want to say really good job with just the awareness of, oh, I'm realizing I'm shaming myself. Because something that I heard you say that I think is so important is, Brian isn't the one shaming. It's the self-shame. And that's good news because you can heal that fully and completely and he can support you through it versus having to be in a situation of like, hey, honey, let me educate you while I heal myself. And by the way, shout out to Brian. We love Brian. 

 

Stefanie: We love Brian.

 

Nadège: We love Brian. And so one thing is, that's a win, this awareness, so I want to take a moment here to really be present with this. Awareness is medicine. When we have a struggle, whether it's a sex struggle, a money struggle, a career struggle, 80% of the battle is not being aware of the actual problem, and the second you become aware of it you shoot forward 80% in your healing, and then the final 20% is action steps, pattern changes, talking to yourself. So Steph, you did the 80%. You rocketed forward because you're like, wait, I'm noticing that I'm feeling this. I'm noticing I'm shaming myself. I'm going to talk to myself. And now the next question I have as we're kind of digging into continuing to heal the mismatched libido, because it's very healable. And it's… by the way, everyone listening, healing that is not about changing your libido. Right? That's not what we're doing here. But here's what I want to know. What is going right right now?

 

Stefanie: Oh, what is going right? As far as like my libido or like our relationship? 

 

Nadège: Let's say both. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. I think with my libido, I think what's going right is I think going back to like the self-awareness, like even just to where I was a year or two ago, I think I… honestly, I'll admit it, I would compare my libido to the twins from the Double Team podcast because we were so collaborative and we worked together so much on the podcast. We did live shows and they were so known for just like, you know, the sex parties and fucking and being so openly beautifully expressive about it and just being down and horny all the time. And I was just like, what is wrong with me? I think there was a little bit of like this, unfortunately the comparison factor of like, well, my libido doesn't look like that, you know? And so I think there was a point where it was like, I was so hard on myself.

 

And now I think I'm like, I think because of the conversation we have, I'm like, oh yeah, it's okay. It's okay. You know? So I think that's what is going right is the fact that it is going… that self-awareness, you know, and then now we're just trying to break the patterns and getting to a better groove.

 

Nadège: Yeah. Okay. So what's going right is you're not comparing yourself to others and you're in a space… it sounds like the shame is starting to trigger self-love instead of the bad self thing, self-denial or self-shame or whatnot. We love that. So again… and this is what's important about having sessions is, if you didn't have someone to share with you, Steph, that is huge. That's such a win. Your brain, because this is what brains do, would have been like, oh, well, okay, I'm not shaming my… but you wouldn't sit in it. You wouldn't sit in the wind. You wouldn't realize that. And so it's a big win to not compare yourself to the twins. I also, I mean, we love the twins. They're amazing, but they are super horny. 

 

Stefanie: They're horny all the time. They're like that perfect epitome of someone who would be a great partner, right? In a man's eyes, in a man's world where it's like, oh yeah, they're hot. They're ready to fuck. They could do threesomes, you know? So I'm just like, oh my God, I'm not that, you know? And so there is that comparison. And I think also it's like for so long, you know, I think we all could agree as like women, you know, and I grew up in a very religious household. It was the opposite. It was like, don't be that. Don't be a whore, you know, don't even have sex till you're married or don't even ever have sex, whatever, you know, where it was just like, okay. 

 

So there was a little bit of shame of just wanting to have sex with a guy, you know, like if I had a one night stand or if I suck someone's dick in a car that went home, I'm like, oh my God, what did I just. And… sorry, I just thought of this random story. 

 

Nadège: No, tell the story because it's important. As we found out before, remember in the other episode on your podcast, the stories that come up when you're in the middle of a share are almost always rooted to a core wound. 

 

Stefanie: Exactly. And I immediately thought of, you know, going back to the shame and stuff. I remember this was like, I had a five year relationship with my ex and we broke up. And then of course, as we do, we're like, who's, you know, a good rebound to someone to just kind of distract me from this breakup. 

 

And there was this guy that, um, lived in the Santa Clara Valley and I've always thought he was cute. And then we've just started really connecting. And then one time we went out and we were just like, hanging out in the car. We were probably like 20 years old, maybe 21, probably 20. And I remember I… we were making out, all this stuff. And then I gave him head, and this was the first time he got head, actually. And he, like, busted in my mouth super quick. And I got mad at him. You know? I was like, how dare you? Now it’s like whatever. But back in the day, you're so disrespectful. Like you, you came in my mouth. You're not even my boyfriend. Like, ew, you know? And so then he was taken back. Like, oh my God. And I probably traumatized him too. Cause he's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 

 

And then I drove him home and… which is also very nice. I could have just left him out, but I drove him home, you know? And then I remember driving back home and… I don't know if anyone's familiar with Santa Clarita, but he lived in Cast State, Canaan country. So it's a little bit more the boonies, little bit more like north. And I went on the wrong freeway and ended up going north versus south and going north, there was just no… it's kind of going to a Palmdale and stuff. There was just no exits for a good 30 minutes. And I was like, oh my God, oh my God. And I'm scared. And I don't have Google Maps back then, you know? And so I'm just like, what the fuck? I went on the wrong freeway. And then I just started shaming myself. Like, this is what you get. Now you're lost on this freeway in the middle of the night in butt fuck nowhere because you gave head to this guy and, you know, whatever. And he busts in your mouth. It's like, this is what you get. This is your punishment. And I just was like, God's punishing me, you know? 

 

And so that was kind of, to give a perspective of where I was before. And then now as I've had conversations on the show and have been more like, and um'm you know, rewiring that shame. Now I'm exposed to kind of the other end of it, right? Where it's like something like, for example, the twins who are so explorative, so open, so, you know, sex positive. And then I'm just like, oh wait, I'm not sex positive. There's something wrong with me. I'm not going to be a great girlfriend because I'm not someone who could just be fucking horny all the time, you know? So it's kind of like experiencing those two, both extremes. And now I feel like I'm getting to a place of just balance of just being like, it's okay. You know, you don't need to be anything, but just yourself, just listen to yourself, listen to your body and just move in that way. So yeah. Yeah.

 

Nadège: Yeah, big wins. No, but something that I'm hearing is there is an association between pleasure and punishment. And that something that is deeply internalized that is still being healed, but that you've also done a great job of healing so far is, if I have physical pleasure, something bad should happen. There should be an obstacle. There should be obstacles. 

 

Stefanie: Karma.

 

Nadège: Yeah, sex karma, which is not true for everyone listening. It's so normal and natural to have any type of libido or want sex or not want sex. It's all good and beautiful. We know this in theory. But yeah, so something… and this is why I'm like, share the story. 

 

So something that's really coming through is punishment. And so thinking… I want to just name that piece for a second there, because that's something that we'll dig into. And then I want to ask you, so we talked a little bit about what's going right right now in your love life and sex life. And what's going right is awareness of shame and self-love, the date nights, the understanding that you two are going to build intimacy. And for anyone also who doesn't know, how long have you been with Brian?

 

Stefanie: Five years almost. Yeah, pretty much five years. Yeah.

 

Nadège: Which is another reason why I wanted to have you on the pod because so many folks, when they've been with someone for years, you know, these are all the things that come up, right? So we know what's going right. And now, what do you feel is missing still from this love? Or not this… I mean, I actually don't like the way I asked that question, but I would say what's missing that could be improved because your guys' love is so beautiful. It inspires me every day. 

 

Stefanie: I mean, I still think it's just… I mean, for instance, over the weekend, he was like, can we have sex soon? And then I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just… I get still so tunnel visioned, you know, of like, okay, I have to do work. I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to do this. And then my libido and sometimes the intimacy in the relationship does get still get put in the back burner, you know? And so I think right now it's just like, it's still in progress and I still feel, you know, I, I need to do better. Like I'm holding myself accountable. 

 

Nadège: And so talk me through that with, so what, what happened this weekend with your focusing on the work and just how was that experience in your brain, in your body? Like what was, what was happening there?

 

Stefanie: Yeah. I mean, I think, I mean, a lot of it is… so I just got back from the Bahamas, and it was a great trip. You know, I didn't go with him. 

 

Nadège: For anyone listening, it was a work trip. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: Cause it could sound like I just got back from the Bahamas and now can, know, like, but she was working. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah, exactly. I mean, we were trying to, it was like a vacation slash work, but it was work, you know? And I, coming back from that trip, I just still felt like I didn't have enough time to even just relax and relax from the vacation. You know, it's like I had to now get into editing mode and get into thing. And now I have to do Broke Girl Therapy stuff I have to do, you know, because I have just a lot on my plate career wise that I'm like… always, I feel like I'm always even just behind sometimes too with that too. So I'm just like, I'm just trying to catch up. I'm just trying to keep a flow. I'm trying to unpack. I'm trying to clean. I'm trying to do this. I need to do this, you know? 

 

And so like, I barely even have time for myself. And that's something that he even brought up, um, and not in this past conversation, but even before I went to the Bahamas, when we were just talking about everything, he was just like, he even recognized that he needed to be a little bit more patient with me. Cause he's like, how could she even give me all the time and care when she doesn't even do it for herself.

 

And I'm like, damn, that's real. Cause I'm like, yeah, I don't, I think about work. I think about X, Y, and Z, everything else. But I sometimes don't even take time to just like do something for me. And it's true. Like, how could I give him time if I can't even give my own time, you know? So I think that's like the struggle is trying to balance that work life and also making time for the relationship, and the Google calendar has been helping, but sometimes there's like, you know, when there's too much on your plate, I'm like, I don't even have enough for date night. And then, you know, I came back, we had all this stuff and then it was like Rose's birthday party. It was, and I had to catch up with everything else. So we didn't have time to like have a date night. So I think that's why he was just like, Hey, you know? And so, Yeah. 

 

Nadège: And something I heard from before is he's now taken initiative to put stuff on your calendar. He's like, I'm going to put a date night. I see that she has a little bit of time. Has that, is that like something he's starting to consistently do? Like it's a new pattern that we can kind of build on.

 

Stefanie: Yeah. I mean, he's done it. But I think like maybe he needs on his end, need to like step it up and just putting it in the calendar you know, but and that's something that he needs to probably get better at and but I try to do that too you know I try to be like okay like put it stick it in there and stuff but yeah it just I think he even tried to do it for like on Halloween but I had to work on Halloween I was out you know. And so it like there just hasn't been time. But um but yeah, he needs to he needs to step it up and just put it on the next... you know so There's some time in November. He could put it in there. 

 

Nadège: Well, and something that I think will be really positive here and why I love starting when we're dealing with couples with what's working is that when we're healing mismatched libido, a big part of it is actually healing lifestyle, right? It's not like... Oh, let me figure out how to like hack my libido and just change my body chemistry. No, let's figure out how to change change the lifestyle in and a holistic way So that way we have more space, time and energy for sleep, rest and fucking. Right. 

 

Stefanie: For sure. 

 

Nadège: So, um, and, and I love working. I work with so many high achieving couples. So I see this problem all the time. So if we already know that this Google calendar is working and that he feels safe, comfortable and fine to just drop something on your calendar. And even the way your face kind of lit up as he did it, it almost felt like to me, tell me if I'm intuiting this correctly, that it almost is like a pleasant surprise to see that he's done that. 

 

Stefanie: Oh, it was hot to me. Thank you. Like to me, I was like, why is that weirdly a love language? I'm like, damn, he put, he just scheduled something without asking me it in my Google calendar, you know? like yeah yeah like Like, I was like, I remember like, yeah, when he told me he did that, I was like, oh, that's so sweet. You know, like it it's weird, but it was. 

 

Nadège: No, so first action step is let's encourage him and be like, like, and maybe you have said it in this way, but I would love for you to say it. And like, it is so fucking hot when you do that. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: Like yeah maybe I'll have to reschedule it here and there, but like keep doing that. Like that is, that is so hot.

 

Stefanie: For sure. Yeah. 

 

Nadège: And, and like really do that positive encouragement. And the other thing when we're dealing with like high achieving couples, cause I know you work, you're a bad bitch. And he also works. He's a bad bitch. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah, exactly.

 

Nadège: What are things that can be potentially delegated? Like something that I was hearing, you go you get back from this trip, I have to unpack, I have to do this. I know for me as a high achieving person, I lean on family or a lover to help with household things because as a high achiever, that is what falls through the way so through through the cracks. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège; And so for you as someone who's also a high achiever – Would it be like in the future? Would it be something? And I know because Brian does, like there's a lot of couples out there where I'm like the man needs to step it up. But I do as someone who's. 

 

Stefanie: Oh, he cleans up after me. He makes my life. He's so great. 

 

Nadège: No, I've i've come over and he's like cooking you dinner and you're like, I mask. And I'm like, bless. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. He’s so great at that. 

 

Nadège: Because he's an acts of service, love language person, clearly. Are there other delegatable things? Like, could he have unpacked the clothing? Or is there something else there you? The way that you can support yourself is asking for help. This is the thing that women don't do. This is a thing that high achieving women especially don't do. Was there something there too? We already have the action step of like, babe, I'm going to tell you how fucking hot it is about the calendar. Are there other delegatable items?

 

Stefanie: I mean, I feel like as far as like, yeah, like cleaning up, like he, he's so spot on with that. If anything, like sometimes I'm like, oh my God, like he's, he's beyond so I feel like as far as chores around the house and stuff like that they're like I have no notes like he's like he's it's just bless like…

 

Nadège: Chore play, he's got it on lock we love it.

 

Stefanie: I was like and it would be too much for him to unpack for me like I would just be like no please like he does so much 

 

Nadège: But why?

 

Stefanie: But he does so much for me it's like I just feel like it wouldn't be fair. You know? He, like, um when I tell you this man cleans up, he cleans up after me every single day. He cooks for me. He, you know what I mean? Like, it's, and like the unpacking thing is like, I can do that. You know what mean? And so, and also like, I have my own space. I have my own room. So if I could just put it in here. And I eventually got to it and stuff. But I think what maybe, needs to happen is like I think on his end and I don't want to like fully speak for his experience but just what he's expressed to me is that like sometimes he he feels like rejected by me, you know, um because I'm just like, oh, not right now. or I'm um I'm overly stimulated, you know, and like, yeah, sure, that happens. But sometimes I'm like, maybe I'm not getting as mentally stimulated or my libido because it's like there is a sense of fear rejection on his end. So he kind of just waits for me and waits for me to kind of approach him, which is fine sometimes. But sometimes I'm just like, well, then, especially because I'm so tunnel vision. I have so much going on. It's like, what is that going to, you know what mean? It's not going to happen as often as you'd like. So sometimes I think I would want him to step it up in that way and just not be scared of that rejection. But I understand why he does, you know, but it's just like, you know, Oh, be okay with being rejected and understand that it's not personable. It's not personal, you know? 

 

Nadège: We should do a session with him on that because that is something I could really help him with. But thinking back, since he's not here and we can't talk to him, thinking back to what you had said earlier about, you know, I can do the unpacking. He already does a lot for me. I don't want to do that. Another question, and I just want to plant this question as a seed, is – What would he actually have thought if you asked for that help and would he have preferred like, hey, If it means Steph has more rest, which will make her more intimate and affectionate, most likely, then maybe it would have been a good thing to say like, hey, you know let me ask to delegate this to you. And he might actually have been really okay with that because the flip side would be, oh, she doesn't have her luggage in the spare room on the back of her head. Like something to really think about here. Would that potentially have helped you if, if he had taken a little bit of that off your plate, do you think there would have been potentially more intimacy time, which would have then made the ask, not something for you to feel guilty about, but something maybe that was worthwhile?

 

Stefanie: Yeah. I don't know. I don't have to think about that a little bit more. Cause I feel like I feel like just specifically the unpacking part, weirdly enough, is like I could put that more on the back burner. Like that's not a priority even though it should be know what mean I know that's like fucked up to say where I'm like I could do a million other things besides unpacking so it like doesn't feel you know what I mean because I feel like that's kind of a little bit lower on the priority list and versus everything else that's like above it so I don't know specifically if that would have helped and I also think like and maybe I'm projecting something but I'm like if I asked him I feel like he'd be so annoyed with me gotcha I feel like it would be more of a like, okay, you know, that I wouldn't want like that kind of like problem to deal with because I'm like, i already have all these other things I need to deal with. So I'm going to put this in the backboard and get into it a week later. It's fine. And I did. And, um, but it's, you know, like it's, yeah, it's just, I think as far as making my life easier, he already does that, you know?

 

Nadège So this piece wouldn't have pushed the needle forward in a way that would have.

 

Stefanie: Yeah, I think it just would have irritated him. Cause he's like, i already do so much for you. You know, but it's like, you can't just do this one thing. And it's true. Like, it's really true Nadège. You can't, you can't.

 

Nadège: You did do the one thing you did it a week later. It's okay. I did it. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. I did it later. But it's like, if I like, you know, came back home and was like, can you do this? He'd be like, you know, cause he's already doing everything else for me that I just, I would feel like yeah it would wouldn't be like a good balance. Yeah, totally. It would just make more of a problem, I think, than, than fixing it in that case. But I think it's, you know, I think it's more so just the rejection. I think he could have just still tried to even squeeze in like an hour or two of, of a date night. It doesn't need to be a whole night, you know, just like, let's have this an hour or two time frame or something to just sit with each other. You know, I think it's just like making use of even a little moments of when we are really busy, you know, and I think I need to even do that too. But I think. 

 

Nadège: Well, and that was. Oh, no, go on with what you were going to say. 

 

Stefanie: Oh, but I think on his end, he should probably not be scared of the rejection and be like, yeah, let me just squeeze in a little bit at that time, you know? So. 

 

Nadège: Yeah. And like I said, like we… with with him and his feeling of rejection, we'd have to have him here to kind of deep dig deeper to talking and about that. But I'm glad you brought this back because I was going to circle back to this, too. You also mentioned and you're totally right like hey I can also initiate or I can also you know heal some of this rejection and they and and it's so common a lot of men in long-term relationships they do start to feel those shadows of rejection because they just keep hearing no all the time and they don't know how to get a yes and any all the men who are listening I can oh like give me one hour of your life and I will change that pattern.

 

But with you, so thinking back how we were talking about earlier at the beginning of this episode, how deep down you learned on a cellular level, on a bodily level, that punishment is a part of pleasure. And something that I am hearing through the achiever in you, and this is very common with achievers, is achieving is creating an opportunity for self-punishment and self-denial. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: It's really common with high achievers and with women and and all the things, like basically all the beautiful, wonderful, badass things about your life. This is like part of the shadow of that. And so, something I'm thinking is you're still on a very subconscious level allowing life or yourself to punish the pleasure through overworking, overachieving, staying busy, even though you love everything that you're moving towards. And so understanding that you have a beautiful career that you love. I almost like to think of when people are in your position, it's like your career is one of your soulmates and life partners. Like Broke Girl Therapy is a soulmate. And then Brian is a soulmate. And it makes no sense to deny either soulmate your time or your pleasure. And we don't want to do that. But we want to make sure that the Brian soulmate is getting a little TLC. And so for you... What are, let's think of two things, small things, because you got another thing right that when you were talking out loud that I loved of, oh, like it doesn't have to be a whole date night. It can be small. It can be little. A lot of things, especially with guys who tend to be conditioned that love is supposed to be larger than life. And if they're doing love right, they have to make this larger than life experience for their woman. And they have to learn like, hey, we have an hour. I can massage her feet and can just hang and that can be great. And so for you thinking like a piece of this puzzle is, you know, being open to connection and trying to figure out how to do that in a way where you're not actually compromising on your no, because that's something we do not want to do. If your body does not want sex, we're not trying to be like, let me just force myself to do it. Uh-uh. But what is way? And if we're thinking of this weekend that was so busy, Rose's birthday, all of these things… What is little mini action step that could have been taken for you to initiate some intimacy with him or to initiate like just even affirmation? I think you're hot. I think… rebuild a little bit of what the rejection has not built, if that makes sense.

 

Stefanie: Yeah. So what could we done differently in this past week to help like build that? 

 

Nadège: Where I think um instead of saying it like that, because the week happened and you guys are great and I never like thinking or putting ourselves into a thought pattern of we did it wrong, what could have we done differently? Almost if we were to wave a magic wand and you could go back and you could take one or two action steps. What would be something fun and exciting that you could have initiated?

 

Stefanie: yeah I think… I think I should have just – okay, well, I will say we did have sex when I did come back. It was like the next morning. I was like – I had like a sex dream and I woke up so horny, which is like – 

 

Nadège: Yay!

 

Stefanie: That happens kind of often. Not often, but it happens sometimes. I'm just like, why am I horny when I'm awake? Anyways. But um so we did have sex at one time um and and and that was great. And it was like in the morning and I think it was like respectfully like got out of the way. You know what mean? It's like, okay, we did it. Now I can focus on other things. And I think that's fine. But I think, ah you know, I think he also wanted a little bit more. so that's why this weekend he like brought it up. It's like, can we be intimate again? So I think like maybe... so Okay. So basically, I don't know. I don't want to answer this question. This is hard. 

 

Nadège: Yeah. It is a hard question. It is a hard question. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. 

 

Nadège: Let’s think on it together for a second. And now let's, instead of thinking of the past, let's maybe look into the future. Because what I'm also hearing is that that isn't activating your brain to be inspired to think of a solution by looking into the past weekend. And that's okay. Yeah. A lot of coaching and a lot of this work is it's like we're strategically asking all the right questions to figure out where we need to go, right? And so if we're looking into the future now and we know your lifestyle is busy, you're working on your career, you love this beautiful man, what is something that would be a nice gesture to to show with him that could create some affection? 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. I think I struggle with that. I think that's the problem is because a conversation that we've had before was, like, I'm not the best at thinking about stuff like this. Like, I think that's where that issue is. It's like, okay, what can we do to, like, make it a little bit more romantic or, like, give him a signal or something, you know? Like, i Like, I always laugh at this argument that we had one time because I was like, because he kept saying, like, I want to feel like a king. Like, I want to feel like you, you know, like, I want to feel spoiled. Like, I do so much for you. Like, can I have a moment to, like, feel spoiled and, like, whatever?

 

And I asked him, I was like, well, what does that look like for you? Like, what do you mean? You know, like, do you, because it's like I try to cook for him. He would rather take over the kitchen. You know what mean? Like, he doesn't. Or it's just like he doesn't he rather clean because he's better at it like you know like I'm like well what does that look like what do you what do you want to you know you want a back massage like what is it. He's like dude I don't know he's like just listen uh to like literally get a lyric from catered to you by Destiny's Child and do that because he knows I know like all the you know, lyrics to that song. And so he's like, just, and I love Destiny’s Child, Beyonce. So he's like, just do that, you know? And I'm like, okay. But I still feel like it's difficult for me to be like, oh, how do I show up in this way to kind of spark this, you know, intimacy or romance? Like, I think I've realized as I'm growing in this relationship that I'm actually lack a little bit of romance.

 

And I've been thinking about this a lot because I think I get it from my father. And because my brothers kind of go through the same thing too in their relationships. And so that is, that's why it's a hard question to answer because I'm like, I don't know.

 

Nadège: Yeah. You know, 

 

Stefanie: And that's deep rooted. 

 

Nadège: Yeah. What would you say? 

 

Stefanie: And I was like, and that's deep rooted. is deep rooted. 

 

Nadège: Well, one thing I'm hearing is, and this is, again, another thing that comes up a lot is you, in order to give back to him, we're trying to pick up the tasks that he naturally does, right? Like the cooking or the cleaning. And it's such an impulse that we do, but in fact, by doing that, you're taking something away from him because he naturally, that isn't, that's, he naturally, like for me, that isn't my love language, right? Like I'm not going to clean up after someone as a love language. I am so loving, but that's not going to be my way. And so what we need to figure out is like, it was a good impulse to be like, oh, I want to give back to him. Let me do these things, right? And, but then that's taking away from the relationship. And what we need to figure out is what is natural to you. Now, things that I know about you as someone who's been around you for years, one of your strengths is just the way you talk and words of affirmation. I mean, we're yappers. both love a yap. You love a yap. 

 

Stefanie: We love a yap. 

 

Nadège: But one thing that I think could be a really big strength that could be something really great to play with is actually like he wants to be treated like a king. What if that was something you did just with your words? And what if we start there? Because you're a language person, you're a yapper, and it can feel really uncomfortable at the beginning if we have intimacy blocks or we grew up with parents who did not show intimacy to start being affectionate verbally. It can feel really weird. But once you get over the hump of it. So what comes to mind when you think of that, like in so it turning around and like trying to use words of affirmation as a way to, to support him?

 

Stefanie: I think I do that. You know, like, that's the thing that's like, you know, like maybe he needs to I think we should have had him on the pod. Maybe we need to do another episode with him. But like I do that every day. Like I'm very like I like spot on very words of affirmation. I make sure to tell him I love you every single day that he's great.  He’s going to have a good day. Like I'm very encouraging in that way. And I think that I am a great listener too. So and and what I do do and I want to you know, obviously advocate for myself too. I'm not completely just like tunnel vision about work, but like, you know, if we're working and stuff like that, um, and we're having dinner, something I always try to like get him to do is like eat with me. Like let's sit together. Cause we don't have like a dining table. Like we, you know, like have just like side, table you know, like side tables or whatever. Like we, I've always wanted a dining table in this apartment, but we don't have that. Cause we don't have the space for it. Um, not yet, but Like, ah you know, what's important about like a dining table. So you're sitting together, we're eating together. We'll have a conversation, but we don't have that. So like when we are, when we do eat, we just like sit in front of like our computers or whatever. Like we're such iPad kids and that's like a bit of a problem. So I try to, you know, when I'm about to sit in front of the TV and eat or whatever, like I actually don't want to watch TV. Like I tell him like, can you just come sit with me? Let's just eat together. So I try to be very intentional with that. But I don't – and i I tell him I love him every day. i tell him good morning. you know We both work from home. I do talk to him, but I don't feel like that's like enough.

 

Nadège: Yeah. But I love hearing that you have that. So if we have that, let's build on it. Next step is you have the words of affirmation. What if you started the morning – with a one to two minute practice or less of holding each other's hands and eye gazing for 30 seconds.

 

Stefanie: Ugh. I hate eye gazing.

 

Nadège: I know. Listen, you roll the eyes, but you hate the thing that's going to make the transformation. You always resist the action step that is the one that will take it to the next level. And so if you guys already have, he's he's cleaning up and he's like he like he has that on lock, which is a huge issue I see with a lot of couples. That right there is actually what a lot of couples really struggle with. Yeah. teach people like, listen, use foreplay and chore play as the same thing. Clean up like after yourself, buddy. He doesn't do that, so we have that.

 

And then you are affectionate with your words, which is another thing I often see with high achievers where that might be missing, right? Because they're so laser focused. So if you two have these two foundational things, which is great, we need to start doing tantric touch. We need to elevate up to the next level and you two are ready for it. And that is going to be the next step. And if we want to have this be something that creates long term growth and shifts in a good way, it is something that is a committed pattern and routine to enforce. 

 

And so for you, now what I wanna do is go back to excitement. So when we're thinking of sex coaching, using pleasure as a way to heal, and especially like, its pleasure is gonna heal you so much because of this internalized karmic punishment, you know all that stuff. So this is gonna be rewiring that at the same time. So when we're using pleasure, we need to use excitement as a compass. So if we're thinking of the next thing you and Brian can do to deepen connection that and your lifestyles can stay just as busy. Like imagine if you did a little tantric moment before going to Rose's birthday, right? Where you're at this big party with all these people and things that could have made you two have like drop into deep connection. And then you still have a whole night out, right? Like it's like all of these things. So let's return back to excitement because I say the eye gazing. I say the stuff you're like rolling eyes to the sky like, oh, 

 

Stefanie: I hate, like, don't look at me.

 

Nadège: I know. I know. I know. you 

 

Stefanie: But it's like an ongoing joke. Like you will do it. We're like kind of kidding and I'm just like, okay. Like I just – yeah. 

 

Nadège: Yeah. Well, and here is eye gazing, because for anyone who isn't, and ah you talked about this in the last episode on Broke Girl that we were on where you were like, I hate eye gazing. Don't look at me. I don't like it. 

 

Stefanie: Don't look at me. yeah 

 

Nadège: Another tantric practice that can be a nice connector is going forehead to forehead, hand to hand and shutting your eyes and just being with each other. But you have your foreheads. 

 

Stefanie: I like that better. 

 

Nadège: Yeah, that's so we start with that one. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah, okay. Okay, that's doable. 

 

Nadège: And this is where the coach in me comes in, you know, like people come to me because it's like they want to take the step they're not taking. Eye gazing is so profound when we're trying to reconnect and it boosts oxytocin and other hormones that are connected to libido. So this is you know, the not looking, don't look at me. My spidey senses are tingling and saying this is connected to the bigger, you know, libido. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. Shame. Shame. Fear of being perceived. 

 

Nadège: Or seen as the beautiful horror that you are.

 

Stefanie: Yeah.

 

Nadège: Which I say that language knowing you like being called like that's a that's I love that. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. And it's crazy because it's like when I'm in that mode and we're having sex, I'm like, I could do this all the time. Like I'm tripping like Steph, my, you know, I don't know if you guys watch Severance. We've watched Severance, you know, like the innie and the outie. Yeah. I'm like, my Inny is crazy. Like she like, you know mean? Like my outie does not understand like that. This is like she needs to be reminded that this is great and that this innie is all for it, you know? Because it's like, yeah, when I'm in it, like I'm loving it. It's the best. I'm like, I could fuck every time, every day, all the time. This feels great. And then like, as soon as like, oh, I'm like, I do, do switch. It's like innie, outie. It's like, oh. 

 

Nadège: Totally. And anyone who hasn't watched Severance to get this metaphor to paint that picture, this is a TV show where the main characters undergo brain surgery that makes them have personality at work and a personality outside of work. And both of these personalities have no way of meeting each other. It's literally like your innie is one person and your outie is another. And a lot of people have related to this metaphor, just like you said of, hey, my innie loves fucking and then my outie is like, yeah. Yeah.

 

And so as we close up this episode, I want us to now really focus on the action steps and everything we gained from talking through all of this stuff. And also thinking of that tantric, like we'll talk a little bit too about like and embedding, because for you two, tantra and tantric connection, energy connection, erotic, spiritual connect, that's going to be the next step for you guys. Because as we've gone through this session, we have kind of clicked the, what is it? Checked the box of, okay, they're doing this right, they're doing that right. So this is really the next step for you two. 

 

But to kind of go back over what we have really gone through today, one, let's definitely tell Brian in our sexy voice that putting stuff on the calendar is hot. Thank you, daddy, please do it more. So that right there is going to be lovely. And let's also, like on top of having him do it, you can also initiate that, you know, sometimes. And so, but let's definitely have that be an action step, like letting him know tonight, like it is so fucking helping you do that. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. And I've told him before, but I think I just need to keep telling him. Keep telling him. Yeah. There's yeah, yeah. Like, need a remind. be Like, that's hot. You know, every time he does it, like, give him a little party treat. 

 

Nadège: Exactly. 

 

Stefanie: Yes. A little, like, thank y'all. 

 

Nadège: We call this rewards-based learning, and we do it with children, and as adults, we need to do it for ourselves. So 100%. Ask him to do that, affirm it every time he does. And then the next thing is this tantric routine that we're going to start embedding in. And I would love for you two to do this at least once a day for the next seven days so you can really see how in 30 to 60 seconds you can just have a drop in ritual. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah.

 

Nadège: And so we already said that like, okay, if we were to put forehead to forehead, eyes closed, holding hands. Another nice thing is if you're not going to do the eye gazing to start, forehead to forehead, and then also like, heart to like palm to heart. So your hand can go onto his heart and I'd love to see it be skin to skin. So your skin is touching his skin, not like over a shirt. And the same thing, his hand goes on your heart. You put your foreheads together and then you just close your eyes and be together. 

 

Stefanie: Oh, okay. that That sounds so much more doable than looking in my eyes. Like, look my eyes. 

 

Nadège: Yeah? 

 

Stefanie: We're not there yet. We're not there yet. 

 

Nadège: It's going to be the next step because that's going to be the thing that pushes you. But so what I would love for you to see, and if you were a client, what I would have you do is every day for the next seven days, and if you miss a day, it's okay. You just start over tomorrow or do it at some other point during the day. But I always like to create a routine. So maybe it's the morning, maybe it's the evening, but like, and let's assume it's the morning. Cause I know last time we talked, you said you're good at morning routines. Yeah. Yeah. Is waking up, putting 60 seconds or 30 seconds on a timer. This is important. You want your brain to not have to think, oh, when is this done? Did we do did we do it enough? when it We're going release all of that first step. We put it on a timer, 60 seconds. Then you and Brian come together, hands to heart, forehead to forehead, and you just be and drop in.

 

Stefanie: Oh, yeah. 

 

Nadège: Every day for seven days. Okay. And then I'm going to check in with you later and be like, let's talk about eye gazing. But wait we can do that next time. That could be next session. um But how does that sound for you as actionable steps and what and what was most helpful for you today and everything that we went through?

 

Stefanie: Yeah, I think that is like a very great advice to do because I think the biggest thing is just almost like simplifying things for me. You know, like if you're going to if you tell me like, OK, go read this 100 page book. Go fuck him every single day. And then your libido is going to be, you know, then you are going to be great and all that stuff. And it's just like that seems like overwhelming work. But that just seems so simple that I'm like, OK, yeah, like that's completely doable. And I think that's always because that's the issue in I think my libido and like just me in general is that like. Everything feels very overwhelming. So I think the simpler the simplicity of it feels completely doable. So I'm going to put it on my Google calendar every single day for the next seven days. I might We might maybe more so do it like at night after work because in the mornings, our morning schedules are completely different. So i think in the evening time would be the best, especially when we're like decompressing from the day. That sounds like so much more relaxing for me to do. um So, so yeah, like I'm excited. I'm um'm im going to do that. I'm going to make sure i have to like, for so my ADHD doesn't forget after we log off, I'm going straight to the calendar, going to tell him and we're going to, I'll report back, let you know. 

 

Nadège: Yes you will. Oh, I'm going to out soon. I can't wait. That that is going to be so so beautiful, like incorporating those tantric energy routines. Yeah. And then, of course, the other action step, letting him know how hot it is with the calendar and he can put more and just and just continuing to affirm. And this is what I love about coaching sessions. We dive into really deep, deep, deep things only to realize like, hey, you know what? The action steps to get us out of this is very simple little micro shifts.

 

Stefanie: Yeah. Yeah. 

 

Nadège: Very doable. 

 

Stefanie: Little tiny goals. Little tiny goals. And that helps. Orgasms. 

 

Nadège: Little goals for big orgasms. 

 

Stefanie: Exactly. Step by step. Yeah.

 

Nadège: I love it. Well, we always close out our episodes with three rapid fire questions that I am going to ask you. um So are you ready, Steph of Broke Girl Therapy, bombshell bad bitch for your rapid fire questions? 

 

Stefanie: Oh, shit. more at Rose's Island, a Rose Love Island party. Sorry. When you said bomb bombshell. That's what was thinking of. I was thinking of roses, by the way. 

 

Nadège: I don't watch Love Island, but I was i was dubbed a bombshell by Rose Macalese. And I was a cotta for a bombshell. So, but anyways, yes.

 

Stefanie: Bless. 

 

Nadège: Okay. Well, here are your rapid fire questions and feel free to answer them in a word or a sentence, but I love like just whatever comes first, you know, no right or wrong answer. So question number one is, what is the best sex advice you ever received? 

 

Stefanie: Oh. Do it with a vibrator. 

 

Nadège: Hey, I love that one. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. Do with a vibrator. 

 

Nadège: Yeah, do with a vibrator. 

 

Stefanie: It's helped a lot in a lot of ways. 

 

Nadège: What did you say? 

 

Stefanie: It's helped a lot in a lot of ways. 

 

Nadège: Yep. Oh, absolutely. Now, what is the worst sex advice you ever received? 

 

Stefanie: The worst sex advice. I mean, the first coming to mind is like, wait till you're married, you know, but that's, is that cliche again?

 

Nadège: I've never actually heard that one on the pod yet. And, and unless someone that like for some folks, I just want to say it can be the totally right choice for you. 

 

Stefanie: That's true. Yes. Yeah. 

 

Nadège: If it is not, that advice, you're right. It is not good overarching advice for all humans. 

 

Stefanie: Yeah. It didn’t work for me. Okay. So, yeah. know 

 

Nadège: But again, if that is you and you are listening, bless you and I love you and you are welcome here too at the Pleasure Science Podcast. 

 

Stefanie: Again, no shame. You could do whatever you want. And that's the whole point is that there's no shame in how you want to you know, navigate your sex life. 

 

Nadège: Love it. And then our final rapid fire question. What do you hope will change about the way the ver the world views sex in the years to come? 

 

Stefanie: I mean, I think, I mean, the obvious question, and obvious answer to why we do what we do, right? It's just like normalizing it. Like it's not weird at all. I think we shouldn't be embarrassed to talk about it. So I just hope that people have open and honest questions about it and talk about it with, even with your parents. I think that that like, for me, it's like, I never had these types of conversations with my parents, you know? And so I hope that maybe that's all, um maybe that's what it is. I hope parents tend to feel more comfortable as years ago to talk to your kids about sex and educate them before the school system does or, before they figure out themselves because I think it um it will it would have avoided a lot of situations I think that I've shouldn't have gone through, you know, as far as like essay, consent, stuff like that, like decision-making and navigating through it. I think i if I had someone to guide me through in the beginning, then I would have felt better, you know?

 

Nadège: Yeah, absolutely. And so, well, Steph, thank you so much for being here with us today. It is such a joy. And let… tell everybody where can they find you? Where can they listen to Broke Girl Therapy? Because I know they're going to want more now that they've gotten a taste.

 

Stefanie: Oh my God. Well, I know it's always so weird to be on another podcast and have to plug myself because I do it in a cadence. Like I do it in a specific way. But you guys can find me on Broke Girl Therapy. oh Oh God, this is weird. I'm overthinking now. or Broke Girl Therapy on Instagram, Broke Girl Therapy on TikTok, everything. Or you could go go to Broke Girl Therapy.com. All that shit is there. 

 

Nadège: Love it. And you get into like the coolest topics on the pod. So if people like learning about relationships, sex, and also like real life stories, you know, head over to Broke Girl Therapy and you'll have a good time.

 

Stefanie: Yay! Thank you for having me. 

 

Nadège: Oh my gosh, of course. 

 

That is it for this week's episode of Pleasure Science. Please join us next week when I will be breaking down how the word old became a slur and how you can claim your sexual power no matter what age you are.

 

And in the meantime, please come and say hi to me on Instagram or TikTok at Pleasure Science. I love hearing from all of you guys. So please leave a comment and say hello. And speaking of comments, if you're watching this on YouTube, please say hi in the comments here as well. I read each and every one and I love the community we are building over here on YouTube. And if you're not, if you're listening somewhere else, come and say hi on YouTube still. Like it's a beautiful, fun place to be. 

 

And if this episode made your heart or your hips move, subscribe and leave a review so we can give you more of what you love. Now, as a listener of this podcast, you get a special gift just for listening. So you heard on this episode today with Steph how we kind of gave you a taste of the magic of sex coaching. But the truth is, if you had the right guidance and the right tools, you could heal trauma and self-sabotage anywhere anytime. 

 

And so that is why I created a guided video journey called Healing Trauma and Self-Sabotage, where I give you the tools I use with all of my clients, and I give you the exact roadmap you need to start healing tonight. And when you join today, you get lifetime access, which means no matter what life throws your way, you can always come back to me and learn how to heal trauma and self-sabotage. So listeners of this podcast get 10% off by using the code pleasure science pod. Go to the link in our show notes or go to pleasure science.com to start streaming healing trauma and self-sabotage now.

 

And thank you all again for joining us this week. Before you go, I want everybody listening to think of one thing that they have been craving to do. A big or small pleasure that you have been putting off. And I dare you to go experience this pleasure in the next 24 hours.

 

Farewell for now and see you next week.

 

This podcast is a pleasure science production hosted by me, Nadège, your resident sex scholar. The Pleasure Science Podcast is produced by Laura Moore and edited by Camille Furman-Collot.

 

Our music is by Octasound and is licensed under the Pixabay content license. To find out more about Pleasure Science and to sign up for our online courses, please visit www.pleasurescience.com.